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Plastic banned - shadows of echoes of memories of songs — LiveJournal
j4
j4
Plastic banned
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nou From: nou Date: July 21st, 2014 12:20 pm (UTC) (Link)
Oh, perhaps I thought things were easier to find than they actually are — I should have bookmarked things as I found them. Here's one I did bookmark: Practical tips from Ask Moxie — worth reading the comments and following links too (though some of the links are broken now).

I basically daren't talk about race (except in the vaguest terms) to other grown-ups because I have seen so many furious flamewars where I don't even understand the offence given; I'm terrified of saying the wrong thing just through ignorance (which makes it even worse because only the horribly privileged have the luxury of ignorance).

I don't think there's a short-cut through this, I'm afraid. Though remember that you don't have to join in these conversations before you're ready — you can just listen until you get to the point where you understand things better. Read things written by people who're affected by racism, try to understand their points of view, and keep trying.

I hate it too. :-( But most of the people I meet (& by extension most of the people Img meets) would be really offended if I called them 'fat'. How do you break the vicious circle? I'd be happy to call myself fat but I don't think I am particularly...?

Unless your body has changed drastically since I last saw you, no, you don't appear to be particularly fat, so I think it would just be confusing if you told Img that you are. I think one way to break the circle is to be prepared to say "There's nothing wrong with being fat" if/when someone tells Img off for describing a person as fat — and to repeat it firmly if people try to distract you from that point (e.g. by trying to make you express your own opinion on whether the person is fat or not).

It sounds like the essential problem here is that nursery are promoting unhelpful prejudices and behaviours, and you feel despair over being able to counteract them. If so: some counteracting is better than none. And as Img gets older, she'll eventually get to the point where she can properly understand that different people have different opinions — and I'd hope that as long as you continue being honest and open with her, by that point she'll see you as a Reliable Source.
j4 From: j4 Date: July 27th, 2014 08:21 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thank you for the link -- looks useful & I will read it (but wanted to say thank you now in case the article sits on my guilty articles-to-read list for 6 months...).

you don't have to join in these conversations

This is good and wise advice!

no, you don't appear to be particularly fat

That's what I thought, but just so used to hearing people thinner than me saying "oh god I'm so FAT" that it's hard to know what other people would describe as 'fat'. :-}

I think one way to break the circle is to be prepared to say "There's nothing wrong with being fat" if/when someone tells Img off for describing a person as fat

I do say this to other adults (there's lots of fat-mocking at work) but it usually ends up with them goes down the route of "OK I guess X isn't that bad, but Y is just too fat" and/or coming up with more and more extreme examples ("what if you were too fat to get out of your house?" etc) to try to get me to say "OK yes that would be too fat". I usually just try to get out at that point (usually online so fortunately I can often just ignore/block) because yes OK there may well be a point for any given person at which fat becomes a problem, but I doubt it's the same for all people and I don't want to make medical judgements about someone else just based on how they look.

(Also in general I hate that "but what if [extreme example]" tactic. E.g. I don't fly and I get loads of "but what if you had to fly to save your grandmother's life? What if you had to fly to save everybody else in the world from evil aliens? Ahhhh! What then? What then?" from dickheads.)

It sounds like the essential problem here is that nursery are promoting unhelpful prejudices and behaviours

Very much so :-(

I hope my little bit of counteracting does some good, but I fear it'll be such a drop in the ocean that Img will come to see me as an unreliable source because of it, i.e. when she figures out that I'm the only person who says X when all her friends and teachers etc say Y then I'm probably the one who's wrong. :-(
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